How to Say Until We Meet Again in Atlantean

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In the Unmentioned Verb Tense of Atlantean department, Noclevername marked as "needs citation" a passage that references original research and new ideas from yours truely. How tin I site myself? I've tried to provide a cursory remedy to the situation.

I program to come up back to this commodity to polish it up, at least in terms of my ideas that I put down here.

-Epigraphist Epigraphist 16:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC) [respond]

I hate to exercise this to you, since you've manifestly put a lot of work into this commodity, but parts of it are in direct contradiction to Wikipedia's no original inquiry policy. Although I'm sure that your speculation is plausible, the rules say cited sources only. Sorry. Noclevername 21:ten, 29 Jan 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Oh, no. That's cool. I understand. Rules and regulations are important. Please exercise make certain that this article conforms to the standards of this fine website. Besides, I can always find a more advisable identify to nowadays the findings of myself and all my fellow workers in the decipherment of Atlantean.

Epigraphist 02:26, 30 Jan 2007 (UTC) [respond]

What is it, exactly, is it that you are doing?

Epigraphist 02:28, 30 Jan 2007 (UTC) [reply]

There was really quite a bit of original enquiry here when I outset visited this article. For example, I've found no evidence online that anyone officially stated the sentence gild is SOV. Okrand only says in the Unofficial Disney Animation Archives' press release that the verb goes final. Everything else, like post-positions, noun-describing word, adverb-verb, and even the pronoun names, stuff that I had to piece of work with when I began, was all here and here lone. The bibliography to this dictionary and grammer I've fabricated is something like 15 pages. I've combed multiple Google searches with a fine-toothed rummage. There's a lot out there on this linguistic communication from interviews and paper articles presumably based on press releases.

Yeah, it's alright by me if you lot delete what you find to be unsupported. You'd be a regular Bishop Diego de Landa, but I ever liked that guy. He's sort of a hero of mine in a paradoxical sort of mode.

Epigraphist 02:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Thank you for beingness so cool about information technology. I'm used to getting chewed out on talk pages! ;) I'll make the necessary cuts. --Noclevername 04:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Y'all're welcome! :D Information technology must exist a grace from Omnipotent God, Deus Omnipotensus! Aye, the policy and everything makes perfect sense. Give thanks-you for your efforts toward directing the Atlantean language fan commnunity. We tred where angels dare not by researching a copyrighted language. Indeed, at that place are many other places where Atlantean language fans tin go to substitution insights and theories on it. I hope to come back to this folio and subtract from it further anything I discover to be both undocumented and novel. I volition include your contribution in a favorable light in my book. MOAKH NEE-sh-tem KAH-gihn net PAH-gesh-leh-nen! "I thank you lot now from the bottom of my heart." If you ever want whatsoever theories on Atlantean, drib me a line! That goes for anyone.

Epigraphist 00:38, 31 Jan 2007 (UTC) [answer]

I would advise using IPA symbols for this commodity, maybe in identify of, or alongside the pre-existing pronunciations. Only because they are more than specific and more than easily understood by speakers of dissimilar languages. It would exist cracking if someone with extensive knowledge of the IPA could provide the pronunciations, granting they first expect at the ones already in place, and depict some sort of educated gauge from in that location. -- ...Wiki wøw 22:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Howdy, tokh, I'm one of the people who might respond for your request. In that location'southward probably others out in that location, but I've done a lot of work in the contempo months with Atlantean.

If anyone new wants to join the community of Atlantean language discipherers in response to this request by Wikiwow, I can help. Contact me at ljrogers(at)mtu.edu. I have contacts, erstwhile notes, publications, and other resource.

I accept very little phonetic training. However, my fellow Atlantean discipherer Cynthia Morris seems to have had some. I program to contact her and review her December twelfth publication. She is non the only one who has done work on the phonetics of Atlantean. Paul Sherrill and his Atlantean Language Group had sealed a case for one phonetic system long earlier I stopped using the Atlantean alphabet as a cipher. (Bulletin string "Spelling")

I am familiar with IPA from a higher class I took on the English language. Through it I accept connections with a Harvard-trained linguist, one Victoria Bergvall, Ph.D. I have met with her about this language and plan to do so in the futurity.

Withal, a serious obstruction is in the way for me to post the fruit of such research on the Wikipedia ("yutenosag dungun kwahm", "conversation without voice communication"). Equally hinted at above, Marc Okrand, the language's creator, has published very little of the Atlantean language through Disney. Hence, among many other elements of a complete language, in that location is no published pronunciation organization for Atlantean. All piece of work thus far (that I know of) is fan-researched.

The Esteemed NoCleverName did u.s. Ugnaughts of Atlantean a cracking favor in making united states of america aware of Wikipedia's "No Research Policy". Is your understanding of this policy the same as his? Should nosotros put on Wikipedia a pronunciation scheme? Please write back. I earnestly look forward to your respond regarding these matters.

Lawrence Rogers, Epigraphist 05:twenty, 27 Feb 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Yes, I am aware of the "No Original Research Policy", and that information technology discourages statements based on i'south own interpretation of the subject, including fan inquiry. However, I'm a firm laic in the "there are always exceptions" concept, and in the example of television, picture show, literature, et cetera, fans are really the beginning source of information regarding plot and technical details. And every bit you lot said, at that place is very little published fabric regarding the Atlantean language. If y'all tin go someone with avant-garde grooming in the field of phonetics, it would exist of great employ to this commodity.

I know nothing of Atlantean, and very lilliputian of the International Phonetics System, so I don't know how I could actually help, but I think this article could really use some standardized phonetics, seeing every bit they are in place in all the natural language and a number of well-known constructed language articles, for the purpose I have stated in the first post. Any published work concerning Atlantean phonetics would comply with Wikipedia's verifiablity policy, I imagine. However, the pronunciations are already in place, and as I have stated, fan research to some degree is acceptable in this case. And the only piece of work to be done is applying the IPA symbols (which shouldn't be as well difficult, I imagine). I hope I answered your questions. -- ...Wiki wøw 02:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC) [answer]

Good job, Robors, getting the Atlantean alphabet in at that place!

Here are the letters that I've establish Atlantean actually uses:

A B G D Due east W H I Y K L U Thousand N O P R S SH T

I gave it an abecedary based mostly on the earliest one out of Ugarit. The merely curveball is that the H or "Heth" character is used for the "kh" sound of the Illustrated Script. That's the German language gutteral consonant of "ach" und "doch", usw. I call back Okrand put information technology in there considering it's a mutual world language sound and information technology slightly connects Atlantean to Aboriginal Hebrew. All the other letters are crude equivalents to English'. Vowels are basically Latin.

Wikiwowtop: Requite me a month or then to call back almost all this and return to the article.

Epigraphist 19:01, seven March 2007 (UTC) [reply]

I'm still stalling on overhauling this article and getting Vicky's help with the IPA. Correct now I'm very decorated and shortly I'll exist away from the cyberspace for a long while. Possibly in three weeks and certainly after June 24th I'll exist able to make the aforementioned contributions.

DEEG-tem AHD-luhn-tih-suhg net GEH-soo-nohs-tem DEH-moh-tuss-ess bet NAHL-tem WAH-nuht-leh-kik. TAH-ges DEEG-tem net GEH-soo-eh NAHL-tem behr-NOAT-goh-mick. BEH-ket-yoakh, PREE-dihn kwahm KOO-peg-yoakh. PAH-geh-sheh-nekh. (KOO-doh-bih-rihn GAH-mohs-eh BOAG-leh-nekh! YAHD-loog-yoakh!) - KEH-ruhn-tem SHAD-luhg suhl-DOO-peh-toat, Leb EH-seh-kicking.

Epigraphist xiii:24, sixteen April 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Excellent chore, Paul Sherrill/Masily box! Fifty-fifty though I've been too decorated to run into to changing this article myself, I will change it in the future. I would besides similar to talk with you, patriarch of Atlantean discipherment! Let'south discuss these changes and swap info!

Epigraphist 00:33, 23 June 2007 (UTC) [reply]

In the "Nautical chart of Atlantean vowels", column "Instance in IPA" seems to have the stress marks wrong. I don't speak Atlantean, but if wesɛr was stressed on the second syllable wouldn't information technology take to be wɛser? The convention in IPA is to place the stress mark before the stressed syllable, not after. --88.73.138.65 (talk) 16:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC) [reply]

I tried to give the Establish its own article, using the KLI as my template. It was deleted past the authorities.

Epigraphist 03:53, 25 July 2007 (UTC) [answer]

This commodity needs revision quite badly, but it'southward going to be perchance some other 6 months or more. For now, inquisitive parties should visit the Yahoo Tech Group "The Atlantean Language Group", itself in need of updating.

Atlantean is an SOV linguistic communication with a strict word lodge.

There's very little by way of phonological processes and it simply occurs (in orthography) between the suffixes on the verbs.

Nouns are inflected with suffixes for Example then Number. There are Nominative(-), Oblique(-tem) (for objects and postpositional objects), Genitive(-ag), Instrumental(-esh), and Vocative Cases(-peak) (v) for nouns and Nominative(-), Accusative(-it), Dative(-ib), and Genitive(-in) (4) for pronouns. There are besides suffixes which come before Case which betoken other things about the noun (-mok means "big"). At that place are actually no nouns which are indeclinable, just situations in which declension is deemed semantically unnecessary. There may be some other Case marked with both Inst. and Obl. suffixes (similar Sumerian), but I incertitude information technology. - Verbs are inflected for Tense/Mood/Aspect and then Person/Number. Moods are: "Normal" (well-nigh 12 variations) and Imperative (-/-yoh). There may exist a Perfect and Imperfect fix, it's really hard to tell. Tenses are By, Nowadays, Time to come. There's at to the lowest degree one variation in aspect which put the activity slightly earlier in the day. Persons are 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and numbers are Singular and Plural (no Dual).

A large area of uncertainty to me is how many different Tense/Mood/Aspect markers are in Atlantean. I stand by my number of almost x. Repeated visits and discoveries of new texts since Dec 2006 have led me to this.

Genitives follow their nouns unless forming a chemical compound. Cases occur in this order in sentences, always: Instrumental Nominative Dative Accusative. Postpositions.

Questions are formed with intonation and 1 of 3 question particles at the very end. No wh-movement.

The syntax for longer sentence formation is funny. It'south perhaps non-Indo-European and possibly based on some Native American language(south) available to Okrand (Californian?). It involves ii related sentences continued with a connector word.

Words are by and large based on Proto-Indo-European roots mixed with Indo-European synonyms, sometimes cross-referenced with other ancient languages (similar Classical Hebrew). In that location's also words from (some) Chinese, Phonecian, Middle Egyptian, and diverse Native American languages, along with a few others, nearly of which I've encountered and verified. It's very artistic but hard to re-create which makes diciphering new texts without a translation a real bear.

Equally a last note: For what it'south worth, I'd like to note that the Wikipedia entry for this linguistic communication is more comprehensive for that of Klamath-Modoc. Yet I don't regret at all my time spent on Atlantean. As it's based on real languages (but even if information technology wasn't), it's helped me in all the other languages and linguistic phenomenon which I have studied since Dec 2006 -emmensely. I wouldn't be where I am today if not for Okrand's made-upwards language.

-The "Epigraphist", from a remote source 35.9.174.13 (talk) 02:thirty, iv June 2008 (UTC) [reply]

Today I'g going to begin updating this page.

Epigraphist (talk) 00:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC) [reply]

Before someone gives you a Barnstar for your diligence: This is a work in progress. I promise to have all these problems with citations in a week to a month. I'm afraid I don't have the liberty of fourth dimension to piece of work on this projection that you have for criticizing and tearing downward someone else's hard work.

Epigraphist (talk) 10:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC) [reply]

I am doing no such matter, and I'm using templates so if you think it took me a long time to tag that y'all're going to need to read up on how Wikipedia works. You seem a niggling too vested in this commodity. Information technology is not *your* page. - Ageekgal (talk) 10:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC) [reply]

Thanks for all assistance! (Dosepentem tirid bet pageshenen!) Check out the "Klingon language" article'due south section on "Canon". As well see "Phrygian". "Catechism" or "Corpus" are important concepts in corpus-based linguistics.

Epigraphist (talk) 05:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC) [respond]

Give me a week and the other sources will be cited. Eventually I'll fifty-fifty exist able to switch to a less bulky and inefficient citation format. Thanks to all again for their aid.

Epigraphist (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC) [respond]

Couldn't this page site a piddling more referance to the points in the moving picture where the language is spoken? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.79.185.75 (talk) 18:26, 22 October 2008 (UTC) [reply]

This and Other Issues [edit]

Check out the external link "Contains total corpus without linguistic communication explanation." It gives the corpus (including the movie and other works). Possibly I'll edit the article in the next twelvemonth to make more than clear the text from the movie. Withal, if I did, it might go the fashion of all other information relevant to this conlang and get deleted every bit "original enquiry".

Tin can people just get out some stuff upward for a few years? I'yard a busy academic (in-training). Citing this stuff takes time and involves me carting effectually a lot of books. We don't all have laptop-style internet access.

Epigraphist (talk) fifteen:53, 17 Nov 2008 (UTC) [reply]

Note to Readers [edit]

On 06:54, 5 October 2008 user OttoTheFish deleted massive sections of this article without any word here on the talk folio. Wikipedia manifestly doesn't want people to know how Atlantean works. Information technology gives users no borderline for changes then makes permanent deletions. Users who want to make a positive contribution often have to fight to keep their work online. An encyclopedia that anyone can edit is severely flawed because anyone includes people who just don't know what they're doing. I recommend no one contribute financially to the upkeep of this farce.

Link to see those changes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Atlantean_language&diff=243121162&oldid=243094719

I would have eventually given citation for those sections just at present I realize that I should direct my free energy for Atlantean on the book I'one thousand going to publish and on the language's unofficial Yahoo grouping. Interested people volition find it. Contributing to Wikipedia is an inefficient use of energy. Its users and directors chase away real talent on a regular ground. Read abandoned profiles.

Epigraphist (talk) 16:eighteen, 17 November 2008 (UTC) [respond]

Why deleted? [edit]

I had this link in the External Links section which I idea was very relevant to the topic in question and even supplied many of the sources this article makes reference to. It's a mailing listing that has the best of dicipherment efforts by and present archived and on-going on it. Why is this not Wikipedia material? When people blazon "Atlantean language" in Google, they go this article on tiptop. Why not include this link? Information technology's as well the biggest resource on the Cyberspace for the linguistic communication. Perchance not that many people intendance about the linguistic communication, but nevertheless...

http://groups.yahoo.com/grouping/atlantean_language/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.8.131.163 (talk) 03:42, i April 2009 (UTC) [reply]

Considering we don't link to Facebook pages, blogs, forums, Yahoo! groups, and the like, as they are non reliable sources. Read WP:EL. --Orangish Mike | Talk 17:35, five November 2009 (UTC) [answer]

I've been researching the corpus for a while now, and I've found two examples of adjectives: "keylob.tem ta.mil", Royal Sleeping accommodation, and "denet.en.tem gon.os.mig", giant trees. They share like endings that start with "mi". Judging from how they change at the coda, adjectives may agree with their nouns. Taking into business relationship the fact that Atlantean wasn't designed to be overly complex, I think that the "mil" simply reflects the singular and not the obliqueness of its noun, and that "mig" reflects the plural. Does anyone have clearer ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kloiten (talk • contribs) 04:ten, twenty July 2010 (UTC) [reply]

Please keep this topic on the page equally a reference: For the time to come, people with these kinds of issues would do best to join and comment on the Atlantean Language Group, the place where the few people interested in this thing meet, somewhen. I'one thousand going to post your question there.

Blissglyphs (talk) 20:08, 23 July 2010 (UTC) [reply]

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